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Post by Jangles on Jan 16, 2020 12:43:17 GMT
Hey guys, I have managed to get everything working for our game on Sunday. I have tried to keep the game big but not huge, and the forces roughly equal in number. The French do get some more but do have weaker conscript units. I'll probably have a mini scenario to avoid a simple one wall of troops against another wall of troops.
Here are the army lists:
British (~6900 Men and Arms) 501 CinC Divisional Commander (Major General)
502 Brigade Commander (Brigadier General)
501 Line 500men
502 Line 500men
503 Line 500men
504 Lights 400men
505 Rifles 100men
506 9Pounder Artillery 5guns + Howitzer Artillery 1gun
503 Brigade Commander (Brigadier General)
507 Line 500men
508 Line 500men
509 Line 500men
510 Highlanders 800men
511 Rifles 100men
512 6Pounder Artillery 5guns + Howitzer Artillery 1gun
504 Brigade Commander (Brigadier General)
513 Portuguese Line 400men
514 Portuguese Line 400men
515 Cacadores Lights 500men
516 Rifles 100men
505 Brigade Commander (Brigadier General)
517 Light/Dragoon Cavalry 400men
518 Light/Dragoon Cavalry 400men
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French (~7200 Men and Arms) 101 CinC Divisional Commander (General de Division)
102 Brigade Commander (General de Brigade)
101 Veteran Line 400men
102 Veteran Line 400men
103 Veteran Line 400men
104 Conscript Line 500men
105 Conscript Line 500men
106 6Pounder Artillery 7guns + Howitzer Artillery 1gun
103 Brigade Commander (General de Brigade)
107 Line 400men
108 Line 400men
109 Line 400men
110 Conscript Line 500men
111 Conscript Line 500men
112 8Pounder Artillery 7guns + Howitzer Artillery 1gun
104 Brigade Commander (General de Brigade)
113 Line 400men
114 Line 400men
115 Conscript Line 500men
116 Conscript Line 500men
105 Brigade Commander (General de Brigade)
117 Light/Dragoon Cavalry 200men
118 Light/Dragoon Cavalry 200men
119 Light/Dragoon Cavalry 200men
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Post by meliadus on Jan 16, 2020 15:25:23 GMT
Looks good
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Post by Jangles on Jan 19, 2020 22:21:08 GMT
I had a look at changing the paces to inches scale to make things a bit more reasonable for our purposes. Using 50 paces to an inch, we get the following results. Infantry line move - 300 paces - 6" Infantry charge - 450-600 paces - 9-12" Rout - 600 paces - 12" Light Cav move - 900 paces - 18" Musket Max/Effective Range - 4/1.5" Using 33.3 paces to an inch, we get the following results. Infantry line move - 300 paces - 9" Infantry charge - 450-600 paces - 13.5"-18" Rout - 600 paces - 18" Light Cav move - 900 paces - 27" Musket Max/Effective Range - 200/75 paces - 6/2.3" Attachments:
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Post by dandare on Jan 20, 2020 9:10:26 GMT
I think 50 paces to the inch might work . If nothing else, the numbers are rounder.
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Post by dandare on Jan 20, 2020 10:27:31 GMT
I thought that there was little wrong with the game- I think that the column v line was about right- it appears that if the defenders get off a good volley, then the column stops ,but a line will be pushed back if the fire is inneffective.
Like Alan, I'm a wee bit suspicious about cavalry vs squares- I think that needs to be tested. We've seen 2 squares fail to stop cavalry in 2 games. I wonder if that is an atrifact of the disproportionate cavalry move? The algorithm assuming thet the square is not properly formed?
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Post by Jangles on Jan 20, 2020 14:49:15 GMT
Quite possibly. I can have a quick try on the computer and see how successful squares are in general.
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Post by dandare on Jan 20, 2020 16:11:56 GMT
To my knowledge there were only 3 occasions that squares were broken by unsupported cavalry- one of which was Garcia Hernandez. Not sure where the others were, or the circumstances,.
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Post by dgp1957 on Jan 20, 2020 20:07:11 GMT
Had a look at these Anton,look interesting, how are units organised?
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Post by Jangles on Jan 20, 2020 21:51:51 GMT
We used Blackpowder basing (40mm by 40mm) with:
INFANTRY one base to represent 100 men. CAVALRY one base to represent 50 men. ARTILLERY one cannon to represent 2 Guns and 50 crew.
So our French had 4 bases to an infantry unit and the Brits had on average 5 bases to an infantry unit.
I really liked the system. It's not quicker or better than Blackpowder but it does provide a different experience. I would be keen to continue running it over the next few months.
I printed out the conversation tables and quick reference sheets for future games too, and I have kept my markers for numbering units.
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Post by dandare on Jan 21, 2020 9:46:16 GMT
I like the system as well- with the caveat that the move distances are , as written ,impractical. A light cavalry move of 1100mm is not really practical on a normal table with 28mm. I had a look at the Miniatures Page comments- in general they were very positive. One thing I noted was that (apparently) artillery effect increases markedly with poundage,which is odd as bigger shot carries further, but doesn't really inflict worse casualties except with canister.
Reflecting on the 2 games, it seems to me that officer quality has a marked influence on the game- in game 1 the Austrian officers were of low quality , and they failed to rally anyone- the French had good officers and there were a lot of successful rallies. In game 2 the officers were middling on both sides,. There was one successful rally on the British side, and 2 or three on the French.
I think I might acquire a set, as I really like the fog of war -like real generals, you don't know how shaky the enemy are. My heart was in my mouth when the "Devil's Own" charged the French battery, as I knew that they might be shaky, having been peppered throughout the game, but they might have stood!
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Post by Von Widdler on Jan 23, 2020 11:11:59 GMT
I quite enjoyed this system too, the fog of war and the uncertainty make for a fun, if at times nail biting experience. I agree about the movement distances, slightly impractical on a table. I would maybe suggest that the distances for unit's which are broken or in disarray are OK as it would represent formations breaking and troops making a run for it and dispersing, perhaps? But, for organised and orderly formations I think it should be less. Something to experiment with.
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Post by dandare on Jan 23, 2020 12:48:54 GMT
Anton was saying last night that they are quite clunky to work with as the Umpire.I might shop around to see if there is something more modern. On the other hand, they work!
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Post by dandare on Jan 23, 2020 15:07:11 GMT
It really does look as if C&G II are pretty much the only game in town! What I can glean is that they are the direct decendants of Eaglebearer- which I had on my ZX SPectrum years ago, and with which we fought a number of successful games many years back. Any other systems are direct lifts from paper rules.
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Post by Jangles on Jan 23, 2020 21:04:06 GMT
I did the same research, and C&G2 is the only real option.
With our updated movement ranges it will be interesting to see how it changes the feel.
One thing I was thinking was about was when to charge, mainly as the French. In our games the French were charging at maximum range to close as early as possible, but that gives the defenders ample time to reply. It might be better to walk slowly to almost within effective range and then charge. I think the casualties inflicted will be less for the attackers. Something to try out next time.
I think I will bump all the commanders to maximum/much higher ability just to see the effects. As said however, the input mechanisms are seriously clunky.
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